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 Fumer a la maison
Author: La_Maudite (---.qc.sympatico.ca)
Date:   05-23-02 08:23

Un de mes projet personnel est de fumer mon propre saumon et bacon. J'ai appris dernierement qu'il y a deux types de fumoirs: a chaud et a froid.

J'ai vu deux emissions de Good Eats d'Alton Brown for interessantes sur le sujet. De plus je lis maintenant rec.food.preserving ou j'ai pose une question dernierement. La reponse etait extremement complete.... vive Usenet! :-)

Je posterai bientot un resume des messages de ce fil de discussion.

 Re: Fumer a la maison
Author: La_Maudite (---.qc.sympatico.ca)
Date:   05-23-02 08:44
THREAD: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&th=6c378da647f4bd52&rnum=1

Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking, alt.food.barbecue, rec.food.preserving

Peter Aitken (paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com) wrote:
> Cold smoking is almost impossible for the home smoker. It requires exposing
> the fish or meat to cold (about 80f) smoke for an extended period. It is
> very difficult to put together a system that will reliably create the
> smoke - which of course is hot at first - then cool it to the proper
> temperature. I understand that the commercial units are rather involved. I
> suppose that a dedicated and handy person could eventually put something
> workable together, but ...

Joseph Brightly (Joseph@Brightly.com) wrote:
> Cold smoking at home is a bit of work but it's certainly not
> impossible. Here's just one simple example of how to do it. If you
> look around you can find many more.
> http://www.foodtv.com/tvshows/goodeatsboxsmoker/0,4697,,00.html
> If you want to spend the money you can use a smoke generator. It's a
> pretty simple rig which employs a chamber with built in a blower. It
> uses an external heat element which is really just a charcoal starter
> http://www.sausagemaker.com/shop/newcat.html?cat=Smokehouses+Accessories#anchor-47100
> Or build one from an old fridge
> http://home.att.net/~g.m.fowler/frame/Reefer.htm

Alan Zelt (alzelt@worldnet.att.netFINNFAN) wrote:
> I noticed in the latest Orvis catalog that they are now selling electric
> home smokers. Can be used for regular or cold smoking (two different
> heat sources). Sells for about $400.

Istvan (MagyarCook@ceanet.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> This is a very easy process. My system comprises a Metal Cabinet (ex
> industrial storage cabinet) purchased for next to nothing from a junk
> yard. I ripped out the original shelves and hanging file fittings and
> strung stainless steel wire across for the hanging hooks, cut a hole in
> the side close to the bottom and fitted 15 ft of corrugated aluminum
> ducting to it (around 6 - 8 inches in diameter and easily available from
> hardware stores). The ducting is wrapped in a spiral to provide a
> torturous route for the smoke to travel through, which traps
> condensation and 'heat sinks' the smoke to cool it.
> The smoke source is generated in an upturned 25 gallon drum with the
> top removed (like a bean tin); the top now becoming the bottom. The
> other end of the ducting is fitted to a hole in the top. The wood is
> placed on a regulated hot plate beneath the upturned drum, with some
> spacers to allow an input draft.
> Smoke/temperature regulation is achieved by controlling the input power
> to the hot plate and/or slightly opening the cabinet doors.
> This is an excellent solution for smoked salmon, trout etc.
> It is intended to be used in cold weather and try to install it away
> from direct sunlight. However, if it's warm, pack the cabinet with ice
> to maintain a temperature not exceeding 70 - 80 F. (preferably on the
> lower side). With a good stock of split oak I only have to maintain this
> system about once every 8 hours or so.
> The cabinet will rust to a state that it will be come unusable after
> about 3 - 5 years, the hot plate much sooner and the ducting will
> probably become crushed and damaged after a while. Never mind. Replace
> as necessary because it is all very cheap. Do bear in mind all normal
> electrical safety precautions because of the metal parts.
> Read the FAQ for a good salmon brine. You will probably want to
> experiment with your brine and smoking times, depending on the actual
> configuration that you end up with. Again, take a look at the FAQ for
> help.
> Good brining, condensation control and temperature control are
> essential. After a few attempts, you will make smoked salmon that people
> will knock on your door to purchase.
> I have Americanized the measurements in respect for our majority
> membership.
> Istvan

bgipps@shaw.ca (bgipps@shaw.ca) wrote:
> I've just finished building an awesome cold smoker. The main smoking
> chamber began life as a stainless steel, insulated commercial holding
> cabinet. It is about five feet high, three feet deep, and 18 inches wide,
> with a wack of SS shelves in it.
> I had a stainless steel Peerless beer keg that I had been dragging around
> from house to house for about fifteen years. That was turned into the smoke
> generator. Uses an electric stove element on a reostat. The smoke is
> transferred to the smoking chamber via 2 inch square SS pipe. We came up
> with a way to have the smoke zig zag back and forth in a relatively short
> physical distance (about 18 inches) but it is almost cold by the time it
> reaches the smoke chamber. The smoke generator gets warm to the touch, and
> the first little bit of the pipe also gets warm. Hardly any heat is
> transferred to the smoke chamber though.
> I live in the Lower Mainland of British Columbia where the temperature is
> quite moderate year round. Did some tests the other day. Ambient
> temperature was around 61 F. Highest temperature I got inside the smoke
> chamber, where the smoke entered, reached 68 F. Temperature at the top of
> the smoking chamber was about 63 F. Can generate a lot of smoke, quite
> quickly, and keep it going.
> It took some serious work (and a few $$) to build, but is should last me a
> lifetime. I've got a separate hot smoker, but have plans to turn this unit
> into a dual hot/cold smoker at some time in the future.
> I love smoked foods - hot and cold. My only advice is to go for it, it is
> worth the effort.
> Cheers
> Dusty
> P.S. If anyone wants info or pictures on the actual unit, dimensions, etc.,
> drop me a note and I'll send the info to you.

Istvan (MagyarCook@ceanet.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> I would recommend that you keep them separate, unless you plan to
> thoroughly clean the cabinet after each hot smoke (a most unpleasant
> task). You probably will have noticed that the hot smoker gets a good
> deal of creosote deposits on it.
> I personally believe that for cold smoking, because the process is
> subtler, the chamber should remain relatively free of any deposits that
> might impart a poor taste when re-activated.
> Istvan

Carl Robitaille (Carl@CarlRobitaille.org) wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been reading this thread with great interest. I haven't got any
> experience with home-smoking, but I plan to try it next year.
> Good Eats being my only source of information prior to reading
> r.f.preserving, I was under the impression that salmon was hot smoked
> where bacon was cold smoked. But obviously from your discussion, I
> conclude that there is no such rule. Is commercial smoked salmon cold or
> hot smoked? By the texture I would guess cold smoked, but I don't really
> have a clue... :-)
> Also, I was asking myself the question of a home-made smoker being used
> for both hot and cold smoking. Has anyone tried it? What is the
> conclusion? Is it a pain as Istvan suggests it?
> Thank you folks for the precious information.

Istvan (MagyarCook@ceanet.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> Hi Carl,
> This topic is open to much discussion. Cooking in general, and
> smoking/BBQing in particular are infinitely variable concepts. That is
> what makes it such an interesting subject to discuss!
> I have very definite views when it comes to cold smoking, but they are
> just my views. I learn a great deal from other people's opinions and the
> reason I lurk and sometimes post to this newsgroup is because of my long
> term interest in cooking, preservation and traditionalism.
> With salmon (or, in fact any fish), there are two ways to smoke it.
> Either cold or hot. Each is completely different. The taste, texture and
> storage times, etc. are not the same.
> Traditionally, 'smoked salmon' is cold smoked and is served thinly
> sliced as an hors-d'oeuvre or in sandwiches. The classic smoked salmon,
> IMO, comes from Scotland, although some say that the technique was
> brought there by the Vikings and, hence, Scandinavia. Try telling a Scot
> that ;-). Also I have Canadian friends who claim they invented it (I
> don't think so ... :-p). So make your own mind up.
> Regardless, in my 30 years of fish smoking experience, I believe that
> there are several things to consider. I'll deal with cold smoking
> because there are many people here that can deal with the hot smoking
> subject.
> Cold smoking is a sensitive and subtle process. Many products require
> but just the minium exposure to smoke to make them perfect. Under or
> over smoking will spoil the process. In Hungary (where my blood line
> originates - I'm hybrid Hungarian/English) and in many other places
> around the world, traditionally, smokehouses (even in very poor
> households) were usually built from wood and had dimensions of around 3m
> x 3m x 2m (9ft x 9ft x 6ft) minimum. The smoke was very often generated
> in a small hearth in the middle of the smokehouse; simply a fire that
> was occasionally tended with split wood. Simple flaps were installed in
> the roof and walls to regulate temperature, air and smoke. Input draft
> was defined by the ill-fitting timbers!
> Sausages and brine cured fish were smoked by this method. Most of the
> fish were species like Eel, Pike, Pike/Perch (Zander) and Carp because
> Hungary is a land locked country.
> Many factors were taken into consideration, but not necessarily by using
> scientific methods. Temperature, condensation and type/quality of wood
> were very important.
> First, most cold smoking was done in the early part of winter when,
> because it was so cold, the humidity was low. It was also done at other
> times of the year, but the humidity would always be a big consideration.
> Second, the wood was always well seasoned, maybe two years or more.
> Third, the sausage, fish or meat to be smoked was never taken into the
> smokehouse cold. It was usually hung for a couple of days in a kitchen
> before going into the smokehouse.
> For cold smoking the absolute rule was *never* let condensates form on
> your product. If it does, a perfectly brined fish or meat, and for that
> matter, sausage could be destroyed in an hour or so. The condensation
> carries with it the creosotes and other undesirable chemicals. Once on
> the product, it cannot be removed as it will enter the outer membranes
> and taint the inner flesh.
> Now we come to the issue of scale .....
> This classic cold smokehouse cannot be scaled down, in my opinion.
> Smaller metal cabinets do not exhibit the same characteristics;
> particularly with regard to condensation. Air flows are different and,
> generally, the smoke density is higher.
> The subject of condensation has not been explored in depth on this
> newsgroup to my knowledge. In hot smoking it really is not an issue
> because extreme temperature gradients don't exist.
> In the metal cabinet type cold smokers that I design, I always build in
> a condensation trap. In winter, a coiled thin metal duct suffices (I
> empty it after each session). In conditions of higher humidity or if I
> think my wood may not be absolutely dry, I place large chunks of ice on
> metal baffles that the smoke passes though. It's absolutely incredible
> just how much moisture you can collect. Sometimes half a gallon in 8
> hours! The point is ... don't let it get to your fish, sausages, meat,
> etc.
> Temperature and smoke density are easier to control by appropriate
> venting.
> For cold smoked salmon, you can't go far wrong with the following simple
> cure:
> For 10 pounds of filleted fish
> 1 lb Salt
> 1/2 lb Brown sugar
> 2 tsp Prague Powder #1 (or sodium nitrite)
> 1/2 Cup Scotch Whisky if you like ;-)
> Soak the fish in a saturated brine solution (can't dissolve any more
> salt in the given quantity of water) for no more than 1 hour. Shake
> around every 20 mins or so. Rinse thoroughly to remove any debris. Shake
> excess water off.
> Mix all the ingredients well. Find a non-metallic or stainless steel
> tray which is deep, wide and long enough to take the fillet without
> having to force it to fit. Take the fillet and rub the cure carefully
> into the flesh. Do not be too aggressive or you will break down the
> surface texture.
> Place the fish skin side down onto a thin layer of cure in the tray.
> Cover with the remaining mix evenly. Cover the entire tray with muslin
> or a similar (breathable) cloth and leave in a cool place for about 8 -
> 10 hours. If possible, check every few hours. The cure should be almost
> liquefied after about 3 - 4 hours. Do not leave longer than 10 hours or
> the fish will probably be too salty.
> Wash the cure off, paying particular care to remove any 'ingrained'
> particles. Air dry outside if it's cold or force air dry in a very cool
> place with a fan. This process can take several hours. You'll know when
> it's right because the surface of the salmon will take on a distinct
> 'glaze' and you will see small globules of grease (like it's sweating)
> on the surface. This is different from the similar effect that you will
> get if the fillet is too warm!
> When you think the fish is getting close to being ready, warm your
> smoker. Stabilise the temperature at about 70 Deg. F (no higher than 90
> Deg. F) but don't introduce the smoke yet. Hang the fish vertically in
> the smoker (hooked through the head end is best). Leave it to get to the
> smoker temperature. Probably 1 hour for 10lbs. Introduce the smoke
> *very* lightly. It should be no more than just wisps of smoke curling
> around the fish. Don't allow the smoke to become dense. Just a few
> minutes of high density smoke will spoil the product. Trust me, I've
> been there :-(
> Maintain these conditions for 24 to 48 hours at least. Look every now
> and again to check the colour and texture. The flesh should appear a
> very deep orange (almost red) when ready and the texture should feel
> like velvet. Play around with the cure and smoking times on subsequent
> efforts, but don't ever get condensation on your fish!
> Smoked salmon should be smoked *very* lightly for a relatively long
> period. When it comes out of the smoker, hang it for at least a day in
> an airy place. When you smell it after the hanging period, the smoke
> smell should be equally balanced with the distinct oily salmon smell.
> It's hard to describe, but you'll know when it's right!
> Traditionally, at least in Scotland, they use old oak whisky barrels as
> the smoking wood. I just use very well seasoned split oak and it works
> very well. The addition of the whisky in the cure compensates for this
> deficiency. The remainder in the bottle also compensates for
> deficiencies in me ;-)
> You could experiment with other woods. I've heard that some people get
> good results from hickory or fruit woods.
> Istvan
> --
> omnes docendo discimus

sedge (sedgeypoo@hotmail.com) wrote:
Default User (first.last@company.com) wrote:
> Alton Brown tackled the hot-smoked salmon issue on an episode of Good
> Eats, using simple items for construction. See:
> http://www.foodtv.com/foodtv/recipe/0,6255,16159,00.html
> Smoker diagram:
> http://www.foodtv.com/tvshows/goodeatsboxsmoker/0,4697,,00.html

> Here's hot smoke method by Alton Brown
> http://www.foodtv.com/foodtv/recipe/0,6255,16159,00.html
> using a cardboard box
> http://www.foodtv.com/tvshows/goodeatsboxsmoker/0,,,00.html
> the transcript
> http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season4/SalmonTranscript.htm

NCHFP (athbrew@arches.uga.edu) wrote:
> From the National Center for Home Food Preservation:
> Please be aware that cold smoking is not recommended for home curing,
> since it fails to have a "cooking" step sufficient to kill potential
> pathogenic microorganisms. That said here are a few publications from
> Cooperative Extension sources on smoking seafood.
> http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/Pubs/smoking.htm
> http://www.cfast.vt.edu/publications/smokefish.html
> http://www.uaf.edu/coop-ext/publications/freepubs/FNH-00325.pdf
> You can search for more on our web site at
> http://www.homefoodpreservation.com. Look for the search page and
> search extension programs in coastal and great lakes states.
> Alternatively go to [54]http://www.e-answersonline.org/[/URL] and select keyword
> search and type in your keywords.

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